update

[boyd1955]

Look at the original picture ... Its a cute little black and white tegu ... Nothing more and nothing less ... That is in no way a bad thing ... There is no reason to make him out as anything more than he is
And yes ... Bobby Hill sent you a black and white tegu ... God knows who its parents were ... It could have come out of a red ... And if it breeds it could have reds ... They are polymorphic ... They are probably ALL "HYBRIDS"

 

[Deac77]

So if reds are the same as black and whites why the different Scintific name? wouldnt they be the same once again back to dogs and wolves are they the same just bc they are both canines?

 

[TeguBuzz]

so are you suggesting that bobby hill send me a normal black and white tegu or just simple debating wether there are such things as tegu hybrids

Ignore Boyd's comments. You have an AA.

 

[boyd1955]

It might have come out of some tegus that have been given this ridiculous AA name ... But as anyone with a bit of suss knows its all a sales scam ... There is no such thing as an AA ... It was made up by some businessman to try and sell more product ... Tegus aren't product ... They are rather nice lizards ... Call it an AA all you want ... Its still a black and white tegu isn't it ... What difference is it from any other black and white ... And don't say its hybrid genes because the fact is you don't know the parentage of any black and white either and they are, if you take any notice of your theories, all hybrids
You need to stop thinking of tegus in business terms because we are going to end up with some serious genetic problems in the species in captivity because of its limited GP ... Its starting already ... And I have a feeling with all the unfulfilled orders that we have seen this year it is getting worse

 

[james.w]

Boyd, you don't seem to understand a whole lot. You need to understand a Red tegu is not a color variation of a black and white tegu, it is a different species. Bobby knows to the best of his knowledge what the parents of the All Americans are. Quit reading so far into the name, once you cross a black and white with a red, you have a hybrid, get it through your head. There is no debating this, it is a scientific fact. If it was called a Red, blue, extreme hybrid would that make you happier?

 

[reptastic]

Boyd you seem to be very confused, he has an all american tegu, as james stated its just a name representing the colors, red white and blue, its a hybrid consistant of a t.merinae/t.rufescence(redxblue)bred to a t.merinae(extreme) do we know who da parents are? y es we do because the breeder has supplied proof through pics, not to mention the redxblue (violet) use to belong to teguboy77 and members like johnmatthew has seen the tegus in person, you can attempt to argue with the facts all you want but until you can furbish proof of studies that you yourself have done on wild tegus in south america, they will just be your opinion

 

[boyd1955]

Reptastic ... Like I say ... You've bred whatever but got a black and white tegu ... Tell me what is different about that reptile from a black and white tegu please ?
I don't care about its lineage because they are polymorphous and anything can come out of anything so it means nothing
tell me why that tegu is different from any other black and white ?
What red white and blue ... Its black and white
Its a black and white tegu
If you want to say it isn't then look at it and tell me what is different

 

[james.w]

Polymorphism only comes into play when breeding SAME species together. When you breed MORE than one species it becomes a hybrid. What part if this do you not understand?

I don't know why you keep bringing up polymorphism, it has nothing to do with the fact that these are hybrids. It's funny how you use Varnyard's explanation of polymorphism, but than say he is wrong for naming them all Americans and saying they are hybrids. So.which is it, is he wrong or right?

 

[reptastic]

Its still an all american tegu, the linage is important, im not going to say its a normal b/w because its not, b/ws, blues and extremes are all predomaninatly b/w in color but they can easily be destinguished, their patterns and head shape are different, whether they are locales of the b/w is debatible but they are different in there own wa

 

[teguboy77]

Boyd you seem to be very confused, he has an all american tegu, as james stated its just a name representing the colors, red white and blue, its a hybrid consistant of a t.merinae/t.rufescence(redxblue)bred to a t.merinae(extreme) do we know who da parents are? y es we do because the breeder has supplied proof through pics, not to mention the redxblue (violet) use to belong to teguboy77 and members like johnmatthew has seen the tegus in person, you can attempt to argue with the facts all you want but until you can furbish proof of studies that you yourself have done on wild tegus in south america, they will just be your opinion

The redxblue did come from me as i sold it to bobby,also blizzard the extreme was mine too i bought it off bobby as a hatchling,then i sold it to a person on here named swatbrat who then gave it to bobby just for the record.So reptastic is correct.And bobby bought of me a redxblkxwht that i bought off bert.So bobby bought two hybrids off me.

 

[Bubblz Calhoun]

This is seriously sad,.. Jwax was just posting an update on his tegu nothing more nothing less.

Boyds opinion is nothing new, since he's been here you practically can't mention a Blue, AA or Hybrid with out him having an issue with it and taking the thread off point. It's not the first time it's happened and guaranteed it won't be the last because nothing has changed he still feels the same way.

For what ever reason it may be,.. doesn't like Bobby, hybrids, Americans in general or just to keep stirring up nonsense. Nothing no one has said or shown proof of is changing that,.. so why keep feeding in to it?

It's not something we've seen in captivity before, it's only the third generation. So they're guaranteed to vary from one to the next more than any other tegu. In no way does that change what it's parents are making him an AA since that's the name they were given.

When I look at the recent pic for now he may not be showing any Red traits but that may or may not change as he gets older. His Blue and Ext genes may be more visually dominant than the Reds.
If you look back at his baby pics he was more green than the first clutch but he still has that copper tone, kind of oil spill iridescence that baby AAs have.

 

[reptastic]

Now that i didnt know, so you kinda helped bobby start the aa line

 

[teguboy77]

Polymorphism only comes into play when breeding SAME species together. When you breed MORE than one species it becomes a hybrid. What part if this do you not understand?

I don't know why you keep bringing up polymorphism, it has nothing to do with the fact that these are hybrids. It's funny how you use Varnyard's explanation of polymorphism, but than say he is wrong for naming them all Americans and saying they are hybrids. So.which is it, is he wrong or right?

Good point james.w.

---

Now that i didnt know, so you kinda helped bobby start the aa line

Yeah i guess lol.

 

[reptastic]

Lol you should be proud

 

[teguboy77]

Well i helped j/k lol.

 

[boyd1955]

Whatever you claim an AA is, its not anything that hasn't occurred in the wild before ... In black and white tegus ... Its such nonsense to say that
The traits that you are talking about are just like inheriting blue or green eyes from a parent ... They may come out in the next generation and may not ... Show me a gang of what comes out of any collection of eggs from one of these tegus ... Then you will begin to see what I mean ... Very varied ... And all black and white tegus
Its all just a silly sad business venture
I'll shut up now cos I'm really busy for the next 2 weeks
Nice black and white tegu

 

[laurarfl]

Some of the issue is trying to determine what is what by a photograph. I'm sorry to even add to the thread because it takes away from the OP. I have no opinion here on the marketing of AA, etc. But, I have a T. marianae x T. rufescens offspring that looks a lot like a T. marianae. In fact, if you did not know it was a hybrid, you couldn't tell by looking at it.

I agree that tegus are highly polymorphic. However, when one someone breeds one species of tegu to another species of tegu, it is in fact a hybrid regardless of whether the genes that show specific traits to one or the other species are expressed. Blues and B/W may be the same species, but the red definitely is not.

 

[reptastic]

Umm laura im still waiting to see pics of the hybrid lol, i havnt seen any since he was a itty bitty hatchling

 

[james.w]

Whatever you claim an AA is, its not anything that hasn't occurred in the wild before ... In black and white tegus ... Its such nonsense to say that
The traits that you are talking about are just like inheriting blue or green eyes from a parent ... They may come out in the next generation and may not ... Show me a gang of what comes out of any collection of eggs from one of these tegus ... Then you will begin to see what I mean ... Very varied ... And all black and white tegus
Its all just a silly sad business venture
I'll shut up now cos I'm really busy for the next 2 weeks
Nice black and white tegu

Once again you aren't understanding the FACTS, more than one species bred together will create hybrids. It doesn't matter what they look like. they are still hybrids.

We are all in agreement that all tegus will look different, even from the same clutch. Hybridization will also help with the issue of the so-called small gene pool you claim there is. If breeding black and whites to reds, it mixes new blood and broadens the blood line.

 

[Johnnydr]

By the way....dogs and wolves are the same species

Also....many red wolves have cayote in them....an issue here in the east.

There are also brown bears that are more closely related to polar bears than other brown bears.

All tegus came from a common ancestor.....through time, speciation occured and you get these distint "in betweens" like blues and giants. Then you have animals who's genes became different enough to call it's own individual species (reds/columbians).

The concept of a species can definitely be argued in some cases, but not this one. There are different species. Red tegus aren't just redhead black and whites.