MBD, prolapse, and feeding

[dpjm]

Guman. Yes, you are correct. Failing kidneys can cause secondary hyperparathyroidism for two reasons: 1) not filtering out enough phosphorus, and 2) not converting enough calcifediol to calcitriol (Vitamin D3). Either way, the result is low blood calcium and hence, secondary hyperparathyroidism.

Mader points out that nutritional secondary hyperparathyroidism, which is caused by inadequate calcium phosphorus ratio in the diet, can be a cause of kidney disease, by some mechanism I'm not sure about. It might be that if the NSHPT causes hypercalcemia then calcium might be deposited into kidney tissue, but I'm not sure about that. I've read about what is called tertiary hyperparathyroidism which is when the parathyroid gland autonomously releases PTH as a result of longstanding NSHPT. This uncontrolled release of PTH could cause excess blood calcium, which might then be deposited in the kidney.

So a low calcium condition can cause kidney failure that can cause a low calcium condition... a bad cycle.

 

[Guman]

Guman. Yes, you are correct. Failing kidneys can cause secondary hyperparathyroidism for two reasons: 1) not filtering out enough phosphorus, and 2) not converting enough calcifediol to calcitriol (Vitamin D3). Either way, the result is low blood calcium and hence, secondary hyperparathyroidism.

Mader points out that nutritional secondary hyperparathyroidism, which is caused by inadequate calcium phosphorus ratio in the diet, can be a cause of kidney disease, by some mechanism I'm not sure about. It might be that if the NSHPT causes hypercalcemia then calcium might be deposited into kidney tissue, but I'm not sure about that. I've read about what is called tertiary hyperparathyroidism which is when the parathyroid gland autonomously releases PTH as a result of longstanding NSHPT. This uncontrolled release of PTH could cause excess blood calcium, which might then be deposited in the kidney.

So a low calcium condition can cause kidney failure that can cause a low calcium condition... a bad cycle.

Just a question do you have an advanced degree? I only ask bc it would not surprise me. First, you know how to quote an artical and second, you have a very nice understanding of MBD.
Mine is in nursing.
My thought is if Ragu was tested for HPT syndrome we might know if this is related to nutrition. Which my gut tells me it is a by product of meat without bone diet.

 

[dpjm]

If Ragu was fed too much boneless meat with low supplementation then you could assume that MBD would follow and because of the x-ray results that your vet has seen I don't think that any more testing is necessary at this point. This would be called nutritional secondary hyperparathyroidism, caused by a low calcium/high phosphorus diet that has caused lowered blood calcium, which triggers excess parathyroid hormone excretion, which in turn is causing calcium to be released from bones.

The next thing to do is correct the nutritional deficiency and see if that corrects the problem, which was lowered bone density. You would know by looking at future x-rays and comparing the bone density with the first x-ray. The jaw bones and leg bones are good bones to look at for MBD diagnosis.

No, just a bachelors in science. But you don't need a fancy degree to look stuff up online.

 

[Guman]

no you do not because that was how I found that article. I felt we had enough evedince without doing the ultra sound. I will start him on whole ground prey in a week and half. He is on a soft diet of carnivore care by Oxbow until then. I did add a dash of ca+ to his 15ml feeding today. I was happy that when I took him to his water dish around 3 he took a nice long drink! Small steps back to health. Tonight he was all squirms in his soak. I figure the movement is good for him.

 

[Walter1]

This has been an incredibly valuable thread in understanding the processes associated with an all too unnecessarily common life-threatening condition.

Clarification between the two forms will remain useful to a lot of keepers for a long time. Thanks.

 

[Guman]

Thanks everyone for the support. I feel small mile stones are being reached each day. I have noticed about this time in the afternoon if I play with him a bit he will drink water on his own. Petting him gets that little gu kisser going. While he is doing this I put him in front of hs water bowle. He hits the water a few times then will just start lapping up water. Poor guy is still very quiet. I do not know how much is the time of year, moxicam (drug), and illness. My best guess is all the above. He does not like being under his UVB light. However, I replace him about three times a day. My guess is that he is getting around four hr's of direct light.

 

[mariahp0110]

Hopefully some members on this thread are still active- how did your little guy recover? And what brand of cat food did you use/when did you transition to Oxbow CC from cat food? I have had my guy barely a month now and he came to me in rough shape (pretty bad MBD to the point of affecting his spine, walking and eating). He’s about 1yr 3mo and yesterday as we were going to get xrays he ended up prolapsing and was hospitalized with a cloacal prolapse from suspected parasites. This guy will barely touch meat and was switched to an insect slurry after hospitalization but in questioning if I should try Oxbow CC if it was recommended by CSU.