Albino/ Snow Tegu

[tora]

If it isn't for profit, then you wouldn't be breeding them. If you were breeding them just to share the joys of a pretty lizard with people, then they wouldn't cost any more than you're average tegu. I also said nothing about morals, so don't put words in my mouth. Just because it's not something I'd personally get into doesn't mean I think you're a terrible person. Anyway, the same could be said about beef in a way, but we were talking about people. But if you want to get into that too, cows are a prey animal, they would be hunted by other animals anyway. So what if people mass produce to keep up with the demand. I don't get what you're trying to say with the vegetarian/meateater comment. We are doing what comes natural to us, being omnivores and all. Like I said, whether it be in a farm or an open field, cows would be killed anyway. Would two albino tegus naturally pick out each other to make babies with? No. Now, hormones and whatnot I don't agree with but I think that's a bit off topic. Again, stop talking like I'm questioning your morals. I'm not. But what other reason is there for breeding a handicapped lizard (when I say handicapped, I'm not implying that the animal is completely helpless and weak, I just mean it's not USUALLY as able as a normal tegu), other than for eye candy or profit? Personally, for me it's not a lack of morals, but more so a lack of respect for the animal. Last thing I'd want to do is breed an animal to not be the amazing creature it is out in the wild. Like I said though, that's my stand on it. Don't all go and put more words in my mouth. :shock:

I think you'd be better off comparing this breeding to dogs if anything. A LOT of breeds genes are prone to certain diseases or ailments, but they just keep on going. Why? You tell me. I apparently don't understand it.

If it's not for looks, if it's not for profit, then why?

 

[eddyjack]

Cow's you say? I've raised a lot of cow's!

 

[eddyjack]

Montana, you know anything about cow's?

 

[Wil]

Tora,
I wasn't directing any of that to you personally. I was just using that as another standpoint in which to point out something that you did pick up on. I didn't think you were judging me at all, just as I am not judging you for your opinions. So basically if I can't use any of these posts to continue a discussion then there really wasn't a discussion to begin with.

When it comes right down to it, I am not trying to change anyones mind here. It isn't my place to do that, never has been. Everyones opinion and thoughts are their own. Personally, I don't care what people breed, or how they live their life. What I do care about is being told how I should live mine.

And again, Tora, I was not posting anything directly to you. I was just using your post as a "soapbox". There was nothing personal meant by it, because believe me if there was you would have certainly known it. So, sorry if I came off as singling you out, that wasn't the intention.

 

[Wil]

I also forgot to point out an important fact. I haven't produced any albinos, and if I don't ever produce any is fine with me. I am not hinging my whole production on one albino.

 

[eddyjack]

Tora is right, perhaps the dog would be a much better comparison. Dogs are very useful in many breeds however, some breeds are created with nothing but vanity in mind and unfortunately with vanity comes greed and exploitation. Thus making easy target for all those with their own belief's, right or wrong depending on your own personal opinion.

1. I have seen many different species of animal exploited for nothing more than personal monatary gain. :twisted: 2. I have also seen many different species of animal treated very well and with the utmost of respect. :-D I prefer the second! :fc

At the end of every day we are stewards of every species of animal on this earth. We are all accountable for the treatment and care of these animals. Most of us are on this site due to our passion for our animals and those of others. How many threads do we see (just on this site) that are about a animal that someone has rescued? In a sense, I resued my Tegu. Not that the individual that had her was abusive or neglegent, I believe he simply did not know the proper way to keep this animal. Could he have learned? Certainly! But instead he chose to find a good home for the animal. That is one way to act responsibly.

It does not matter who you are, if you keep an animal and you take proper care of it then praise be you. If not, well the consequences are yours, not anyone elses. And that includes all the invaluable information that we get from this site. With an open mind I peruse this information, sometimes with disagreement (such as some things said in this very forum) non the less with an open mind, sometimes I get to correct my own thinking by realizing that I WAS WRONG.

I have heard of other sites that allow putting others down, I am glad that does not happen here. Passion sometimes is mistaken for anger, even disrespect to some degree. I do not like text as it is missing a very key ingredient in communication and that is the feel or sense of one's true intent or emotion. Text can seem harsh and often it provides illusion from the true way a person feels or see's something.

All opinions are valuable, what we do with an opinion once delivered to us is important.

I'm gonna go shovel snow now :bolt

 

[Toby_H]

I fully respect Wil's approach at defending himself from earlier accusations of being "immoral" for wanting to keep/breed Albino Tegus.

Albinos do seem to have special needs or additional needs, but it seems when those needs are provided for, they live as happy of a live as their 'wild type' captive counterparts.

I see no harm, much less any moral issues, with breeding an animal that has special or additional needs. Many keepers as well as breeders pride themselves in keeping a species that are hard to keep or breed. Keeping a morph that is hard to keep isn't any different.

Propogating a morph that cannot sustain itself in the wild is a moot point, as it would be "immoral" to release captive specimen back to the wild.

From everything I have seen and exsperienced, breeding 'exotic' animals is a bad business for someone who is simply money hungry. People almost exclusively get into breeding such animals out of interest int he animals themselves. Then they try to modify their hobby to pay for itself, every once in a while finding an angle to earn a living. I think we should applaud those who do, not criticize them.

Those who understand the process of breeding animals with a recessive gene will understand there are additional steps required to produce them, so it only makes sense they would cost more.

 

[Chuey]

This is definitely a polarized subject where both sides will never be in agreement. Can it be dropped already and the thread locked? Personally I try my best to be matter of fact about it all.

I wouldn't actively try to breed albinism in a reptile or anything for that matter. But that said, so long as their is a supply and demand curve for albinos it will never go away. Most of the presentable albino anythings that I have seen generally look healthy and are extremely well cared for because they are worth a mint besides other reasons. I can't say that any albino keeper doesn't genuinely love their albino as much as I do my regular critters.

Like Ben Siegel's albino nile in his shop down in Florida. <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f1sFVKFWeGI" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f1sFVKFWeGI</a><!-- m -->

Gorgeous creature and healthy! Going rate for him was $10,000. There's only a couple in the states. But I don't think Ben was looking to sell. He tried to also sell us an albino ball python, another gorgeous creature. Itjust wasn't for us. Anyway so long as there is supply and demand it won't change. And its the keepers job to care for them the best they can. Anyhow looking at all his reptiles in his shop and in the back of his shop, there was zero doubt in my mind that he knew what he was doing. We had him ship a leucistic white sided rat snake to us, gorgeous little animal. Whose to say that isn't wrong I don't know.

I usually get more angry about knucklehead rep keepers who don't take responsibility to care for their animals properly. Or who try to dump them or trade them like baseball cards.