Skinny Tegu

[StygianChild]

I was just looking around online and there are some that are grain free and tell you all the ingredients. I've found a couple options:
BLUE Wilderness Wild Rolls Beef Recipe; it has some pea starch and stuff but no actual chunks of veggies, otherwise i found some cat foods as well. Petco's website has an option to remove foods with grain and veggies (still checking that ingredients tho).

 

[StygianChild]

just got some cat food at the pet store he was so excited he at almost half the can and just ate it right off the fork haha. hopefully this dewormer and the cat food helps to straighten him out.

 

[Roadkill]

hooooboy, hijacking the thread a bit....

Super worms: in and of themselves, I think the only thing I would say that I think is a negative on super worms is their exoskeleton is rather heavy, which could be a digestive concern. Properly raised, clean super worms shouldn't be an issue with a healthy, appropriately sized reptile.

Phoenix worms/soldier fly larvae: sorry, dpjm, that whole issue of the Phoenix worm being a more nutritionally balanced invertebrate prey is a myth. Well, maybe I should say 95% myth. Years and years ago, hobbyists and researchers realised that the cultivated invertebrate selection they were using just weren't nutritionally balanced and lacking in calcium. If you read any of the older books, you'll often see references suggesting that for better balance and nutrition, to try "meadow plankton", essentially just going out and grabbing wild insects. They were eating natural foods and seemed to be better nutritionally. This didn't stop people from experimenting though. With the idea that wild insects were perhaps a little better nutritionally (after all, that's what wild lizards are eating and doing well on), and that it was from eating a more natural diet, some people experimented with the idea of giving cultured insects a diet that should enhance their nutritional value, particularly with regards to calcium. So they gave the insects high calcium foods. It didn't work. When you give most insects a lot more calcium (to a level to meet the needs of the lizards eating them) it kills them. Lower the calcium content (higher than normal, but not high enough to kill the larvae) and it became apparent that the calcium was just excreted, the insect didn't retain the calcium, only long enough for that food to pass through the gut. So "dusting" and "gut loading" became the better methods to try to make insect prey more mineral balanced. Until one day, someone realised something. Soldier fly are used throughout the world for composting. Not just household veggie scraps type composting, but composting on an industrial scale of some truly horrendous matter. Whomever it was recognized that if soldier fly could be used to compost some of these organic wastes that other invertebrates wouldn't survive in.....maybe it meant they had a much higher tolerance to compounds. Sure enough, you could feed soldier fly larvae high doses of calcium and it wouldn't kill them. Thing is, they don't retain the calcium either. So long story made short, Phoenix worms are NOT naturally a better source of calcium, and if they aren't recently fed a special diet, they are no more nutritionally sound than any other vertebrate prey regularly available. The Original Phoenix Worms company is both deceitful (in claiming that the calciumhosphorous content and ratios are natural) and at the same time surreptitiously honest, if you dig around their site you will find the following quote:
"Reared in a completely closed environment, our worms are fed a proprietary diet which guarantees their nutritional values and provides balanced calciumhosphorus for your pets. " They don't exactly come right out and say what I've claimed above, but yet they do in their quiet way.
Personally, I wouldn't have that much issue with the dishonesty angle other than, yeah, it's nonsense and people shouldn't be fed lies to support your profit. However, I have my own views on soldier fly larvae themselves. I've never found anything that would eat them. Period. Likewise, many people as well report their lizards have no interest in Phoenix worms. When I was doing my research in Brasil, at least at that time and in the area I was living, there was no exotic pets industry to speak of. Me being the type of person I am, and also working at a place where I could get my hands on many different reptiles and amphibians, well it wasn't long before I needed to find insects to feed the collection I had down there. My options were limited: meadow plankton (which for most of the year was bountiful as heck, just a pain to do), wax moth larvae from my friend who was producing them for his research, or earthworms and "bicho de laranga" (bug of the orange, or as we're calling them, soldier fly larvae) from the fishing tackle suppliers. I had frogs of many sizes, very large toads, iguanas, spiny-tailed iguanas, tegus, bush anoles, Tropidurid lizards, amphisbaenids of several species and sizes, spiders and tarantulas (particularly the Brasilian banana spider, most poisonous spider in the world and rather aggressive), baby caiman, turtles of various species, red-footed tortoises, bats....nothing would touch the soldier fly larvae. Even when I tried rearing them on a more attractive medium. So considering how expensive Phoenix worms are, and how few animals seem to even like them....too bothersome.

Back to StygianChild: Oxbow Carnivore Care can be ordered from some suppliers online in the states, but most often is sold through vet clinics. Yes, a wet dog food is what we're advising, but beings as I don't live in the US, I can't really recommend something as it isn't likely available where you are. I personally don't use dog food, but as long as you make sure the ingredients are suitable then it should be fine.
Now, there was some other things I had wanted to mention and kind of slipped before I finished my prior post.
Calcium supplement. We all tend to think of calcium as something for the bones, but as any biologist who really understands physiology should tell you, nearly every process that takes place in a living body involves calcium sooner or later. Calcium is very important. Particularly in digestion, it "powers" many of the absorptive processes as well as is very important for the smooth muscles that help food pass through the gut. You have a tegu that isn't eating much, is possibly not getting enough calcium, not getting enough calcium is going to inhibit digestion....you can see where this goes. Considering you have an already compromised tegu, stay away from powdered calcium supplements. Liquid calcium supplements are far more readily uptaken and won't bind/harden with foods in the gut. Your vet should be able to either recommend a good supplement to you, or even give an injection.
Temperature: as I'm sure some of the audience here can tell you, I'm a bit of a stickler with temperature and tegus (it was a big part of my research) but most importantly, as I try to stress to everyone on all their reptiles.....it's fine to measure the temperature of the enclosure you keep your tegu in, but it really doesn't tell you what temperature your tegu is. Get yourself an infrared thermometer (sometimes called a touchless or IR thermometer) and measure (and monitor) the tegu's actual body temperature. A healthy active tegu basically tries to keep their body temperature around the same temperature as mammals (35-37 degrees Celsius). For your tegu to be able to properly thermoregulate, it needs to be able to access temperatures HIGHER than this, as well as lower than this. If your tegu's body temperature is higher than 37C, this is likely a sign that the tegu is either unable to escape the higher temperatures, or is possibly feeling ill and behaviourally inducing a fever. If your tegu is typically lower than this range, particularly below 33C, this is likely a sign your tegu is trying to suppress its metabolism. Why could be a number of reasons. But to get your tegu healthy and eating more, you may need to restrict the lower temperatures it has access to, ensure it is always above 30C.
Hydration: tegus are relatively thirsty lizards. Compared to some other lizards, tegus seem to have quite a high need for water intake (water is one of the reasons it is thought tegus hibernate - South American winters aren't so much cold as they are dry). Always make sure to have ample water available. To go along with hydration, being so skinny, there's a possibility your tegu may have an electrolyte imbalance. Exo-terra produces a relatively cheap electrolyte supplement to add to your tegu's water, or there's several sites on the internet you can look up to see recipes or substitutions with Pedialyte/Gatorade/etc if you want to try that route.

Natural sunlight. Most of us are aware that natural sunlight is a great way of ensuring good UVB exposure for vitamin D3 production. However, it also has UVA which helps stimulate natural behaviours and even appetite. This being said, I should forewarn you: many people when they take their reptiles out in full sunlight experience a dramatic change in behaviour of their pet. It not only provide that wonderful UVB, warmth, and other benefits....but it seems to flick on a mental switch and many people suddenly find their "pet" is now a "wild vicious reptile". I personally think this is a good thing, a wild animal is more likely going to have a good appetite, but I can understand why it can make some concerned. They don't stay that way, take them indoors and they typically resume their old self. Which kind of leads to my final point.

Last thing I think I'd bring up is one that is typically overlooked with reptiles, especially with tegus. Exercise. Captive tegus seem to lounge about, sleeping a lot, basking. Wild tegus roam a whole lot, rarely see them lying about lazilly. Exercise is a very good appetite stimulant. Problem is is trying to figure out how to get them to exercise. Free roaming around the home is a good start, just be sure the place is "tegu" proof. Just like you have to be careful with a baby crawling about, you don't want to leave small items lying about that your tegu may consider a food item. Letting your tegu roam around on a leash outside is also a great way to get exercise. Myself, I like to take my tegus over to my friend's place and set them loose in his yard. Always keep an eye on them, though.

 

[Walter1]

Thanks, Roadkill. This very helpful and not my thread.

 

[StygianChild]

haha walter i don't think he said it was you thread anyways…yeah, i've checked his temps and he does drink plenty of water. I do take him out regularly. At least every other day. He's super social so we tend to go to the park and he hates his leash so much that he stays around me without the leash.

 

[Walter1]

haha walter i don't think he said it was you thread anyways…yeah, i've checked his temps and he does drink plenty of water. I do take him out regularly. At least every other day. He's super social so we tend to go to the park and he hates his leash so much that he stays around me without the leash.

Oh, I know. Love it still!

That's great about him sticking near you. Who needs a rotweiler?

 

[StygianChild]

got a game for you: let's play the is it vomit or poop game. This came out of him yesterday. It looks almost identical to what i fed him couple days ago….

 

[StygianChild]

I'm waiting to hear back from a friend of mine about running it for parasites. (that's the best part of biology. You have weird friends in weirder occupations. WOO PARASITOLOGY!)

 

[dpjm]

It looks like vomit, and in that case you will not get a great parasite test, since this hasn't passed through most of the digestive tract where most of the parasites are likely inhabiting. If you think it's poop then run the test.

 

[StygianChild]

yeah i think it's vomit as well...

 

[Roadkill]

It does look like vomit, and that's not a good sign. Vomiting in reptiles is usually a death knell. Very few reptiles recover from this without rather extreme intervention. At this stage, it's time to start doing some injections, diluted lactated ringer's (about 50% dilution) with sterile water, likely daily at no more than 5-10% of the tegu's mass. If you're going to continue feeding, it should be small but frequent (maybe twice a day, maybe about a teaspoon) very easily digested food. Time to go for the Oxbow Carnivore Care, make it runny.

 

[StygianChild]

i'll give the vet a call tomorrow when they open back up.

 

[beardeddragon111]

Hope he makes it .

 

[StygianChild]

you and me both. He's an awesome boy.

 

[dpjm]

Vomiting in reptiles is usually a death knell. Very few reptiles recover from this without rather extreme intervention.

One exception is if they vomit due to inadequately cold temperatures and are simply unable to digest the food so opt to vomit it up rather than have it rot in the gut. This is probably more common in snakes than lizards, but it's a simple husbandry fix.

Does your tegu spend time in the basking area or does he seem to be sticking around the cool end? Do you have a way to measure his body temperature?

 

[Walter1]

i'll give the vet a call tomorrow when they open back up.

Please do and let us all know the score. I hope he pulls through.

 

[StygianChild]

he usually hides out under the bedding. if he's not under there then he's under the heat lamps. and the temp is fine. last i checked it was in the mid 80's. perhaps he just ate too much….

and i called the vet and they want to do X-rays, which i don't have the money for right now. They think it might be an obstruction but that doesn't make sense to me. He's not aggressive, no distention, he's active when i have him out. the only thing is that i haven't seen him poop in weeks. usually i at least smell that.

If he vomits any more i'll take him in i'm hoping he just ate too much too fast.

 

[StygianChild]

also i don't have a way to check body temp, just ambient.

 

[beardeddragon111]

get a heat gun off amazon, if you can in time.

 

[Lavin45]

Damn good for you! I love hearing stories like that! And that's a really nice bong as well!

lol why thank you! Every animal I've owned has been literally brought back from the brink, no animal deserves to be kept in a plastic bowel soaked in their own urine like my baby was.