Colombian throwing up; not eating

[Gandolf38]

My 2 yr old Colombian black&white, Gabriel, has been throwing up water for 4 days now. I use ReptiBark in his cage, and have been taking him out whenever he wakes up-he brumates, so he's been sleeping a lot. 4 days ago, he started choking & coughing; bringing up only water. He's been drinking more than usual, staying on his undertank heater & under his overhead heat source for most of the time. He's breathing harder than normal, & his abdomen looks swollen even though he hasn't eaten in over 1 week. I took him to the vet today; he did X-rays which were inconclusive. The vet thinks something is lodged in there, but it's not clear on the X-ray. Tomorrow he want to use an endoscope to see if he can get a definitive answer & whether or not he needs surgery.
Has anyone dealt with this? He used to eat his bark about 6 mos ago, but it always passed. I monitor him very closely when he's out--I can't think of anything he could have eaten that would have lodged in his stomach. Surgery seems extreme, so I don't know what to do. I've had him for 1 1/2 yrs, he eats eggs, turkey, shrimp, cod, & sometimes liver. I put a little calcium & multivitamin on his food. When he's not brimstone, he eats about 4 times a week. He's in a 100gallon tank with 2 UVB bulbs & a 150 ceramic heater. He bathes everytime he comes out of his cage, & I spray daily, also

 

[jumper123]

sounds like an upper res. has his eating slowed drastically?

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Never mind i just read that hes not eating. def sounds upper respiratory.. does he open his mouth to breath sometimes? or keep his head elevated more often?

 

[Gandolf38]

sounds like an upper res. has his eating slowed drastically?

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Never mind i just read that hes not eating. def sounds upper respiratory.. does he open his mouth to breath sometimes? or keep his head elevated more often?

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His eating has slowed, but he's not blowing bubbles or gaping. I didn't think of respiratory, tho, & appreciate the thought...it'll give me something else to mention to the vet.

 

[Bubblz Calhoun]

If he hasn't eaten in over a week, stomachs distended, drinking a lot of water, and vomiting with a history of eating substrate. It sounds to me like it may be an impaction or obstruction. Stomach or Intestinal meaning he ate something he can't pass. It may be stuck in his stomach or somewhere along the intestines. If it's something he ate and still in it's stomach it may be too big to pass through the intestines. Which could have also turned to where he can't puke it up either,.. so it's just stuck in his stomach.

Either of which could require some type of Surgery hopefully just the Endoscope to remove it.

 

[Gandolf38]

If he hasn't eaten in over a week, stomachs distended, drinking a lot of water, and vomiting with a history of eating substrate. It sounds to me like it may be an impaction or obstruction. Stomach or Intestinal meaning he ate something he can't pass. It may be stuck in his stomach or somewhere along the intestines. If it's something he ate and still in it's stomach it may be too big to pass through the intestines. Which could have also turned to where he can't puke it up either,.. so it's just stuck in his stomach.

Either of which could require some type of Surgery hopefully just the Endoscope to remove it.

Yes, Bubblz, that has to be what it is; the vet just called & said the scope was too short to go into the stomach, but since he's under right now, the vet can definitely feel something...I told him to go ahead w surgery. I may be crazy, & I so can't afford it, but don't want to lose my baby. They're letting me stretch out payments, so that'll help some...
I have another question now though--if it IS substrate that's blocking him; what can I use instead that will allow him to burrow, & still keep a high humidity?

 

[Bubblz Calhoun]

Soil mixtures are becoming more popular.
I take it they only have one length scope,.. instead of a range of sizes and lengths to get a better look. An Endoscope would be cheaper surgery wise and less complicated recovery wise. If it turns out to be something that could have been removed through the esophagus while he's under, instead of actual abdominal surgery.

 

[Gandolf38]

Yes, they do only have one, which I thought was weird...
What kind of soil mix? Not just plain potting soil, right?

 

[Bubblz Calhoun]

Sand and soil, Coco fiber (ground) and soil. Pretty much soil that doesn't have any fertilizers, herbicides, pesticides, vermiculite, or perlite or anything like that in it.

 

[Gandolf38]

Ok,thanks for that tip! The vet still hasn't called back, & I'm getting worried...

 

[Bubblz Calhoun]

Sometimes we can't help it and worry but don't worry too much,.. it takes time.

 

[Gandolf38]

Thanks again, Bubblz; I know, it's hard not to worry

Wow, this is strange...they did the surgery, and the vet said he had huge fat deposits that were actually cramming his organs and making it look like he's bloated! He removed some of them; but what could cause that?? And what if it happens again?

 

[Bubblz Calhoun]

Glad to hear it's nothing too major. Can you post some pics of your tegu when you get a chance? It could be genetic but it's more than likely diet and exercise related. He's 2yrs old so he's an adult just about full grown. He may be still growing but not as fast. So he doesn't need and he's not burning as much food or calories as often as he use too. Any extra is converted into fat which is mainly stored in the tail but also abdomen, jowls, neck and other areas. Which start to plump up if not used.

It's okay to feed younger tegus as much as they want everyday but as they get older you should cut back the amount and or frequency. One large meal once or twice a week or a few smaller meals more often. Which ever one works for your tegu. It's fine for them to go a few days, weeks or so with out eating as long as they have enough fat stored away. But with most things too much fat isn't good the same as not enough or too little.

On top of that,.. exercise. I know it's not as easy around this time of year when a lot of them slow down and may sleep more often than not. But it's also another reason to adjust their food intake accordingly when they're not getting as much exercise.

Korben will be a year old here shortly and he has slowed down a bit. So I feed him once a week, three times at the most if he's still hungry. But even then, out of 3 meals 2 are light with more fruit and something easy to digest than anything else. For example this week he's had a lean meat mash with fruit and a bit of veggies twice. Next week 2 rat pups with those he usually won't eat for the rest of the week. If so he gets a lean meat mix this time with more fruit than anything else.

He's 2' but still sheds at least once a month.

Natsuki is grown and has also slowed down so he eats once a week right now,.. if that how much varies depending on him.

 

[Gandolf38]

Sure, I will post a pic soon, if I can figure out how to do it!!
And "he" is definitely a "she"...I kind of thought so, bc of her size and lack of jowls, but was so used to calling her a "he" that I just kept doing it...now I know that she has ovaries, so I can't ignore that fact!! She's doing fine post-op so far; stitches look nasty, but not as bad as they look. I'm giving her an anti-inflammatory for a week, & had to take ALL the bark & mulch out of her cage to just have towels & newspaper for the next 3 days. The vet says then I can put bark back in, but I can't give her soak baths for at least a couple weeks! I can mist, but not soak. She is potty trained, though, & I hate that she has to go in her cage; I always put her in 1 tub of water & she uses the bathroom, then put her in her larger tub where she soaks for 20min to a couple hrs, depending on her mood & shedding cycle.
I appreciate all the info about feeding, & I know she hasn't been getting enough exercise lately...
Gabriel's hooked on eggs, & I wondered if that had something to do with it; for several months now, she won't eat ANYTHING unless it has egg mixed in with it. No rat pups either, not for a long time now.

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I really wish Gabriel would eat fruit & veggies; used to when she was a baby, but I've heard Colombians don't often eat them like Argentines do...my baby red argentine eats fruit, not so much veggies, but he definitely has a more varied diet than Gabriel.

 

[laurarfl]

Aww, I'm sorry to hear about your tegu, but glad to hear everything is ok now.

Colombians can get so picky! Maybe something here can help:

Use a bit of egg to entice her to eat other foods. Dip a F/T rodent in raw egg and feed it with tongs. Rather than rat pups, try small adult mice.

Make a plate of a little bit ground turkey with a little raw egg mixed in. When she eats this, add more stuff like finely chopped banana, mango, cherries, etc. If she likes beef better, feed lean ground beef. You can also feed stew meat chunks or lean beef strips. Add calcium!

Add less egg until she isn't eating any at all.

Add 1/4 teaspoon plain metamucil powder to her food so that she gets fiber. This will help her pass her stools and fill her up. Stools will pass faster which gives fat less time to be ansorbed from the food.

 

[Gandolf38]

Thanks Laura! I appreciate any help I can get with getting her to eat

She's not doing so well...she had no indications of MBD before the surgery, and now her legs keep twitching! I'm giving her high concentrate calcium syrup I got from the vet, but she's not improving enough.

I'm so upset, I can't sleep, & am having nightmares about all my animals dying...this is so awful

 

[laurarfl]

I'm so sorry. Make sure she's getting a good UV source so she can utilize the calcium. Even getting oral Vit D and giving her a dose will be helpful.

 

[Gandolf38]

Thanks, Laura;

I've had so many problems with my password not working on this site; sorry so long for the reply

The shaking has gone away. I'm still giving her daily calcium, & have replaced my UV bulb, but the problem now is that she STILL won't eat on her own. Anything!! I have to syringe-feed, & it's traumatic for us both
I always offer her food first, but she shows absolutely no interest in it. Then I have to syringe-feed, & she HATES it. Food gets all over both of us every time. I don't want to go back to vet, because I dont know what he can do...obviously the surgery didn't work,& we still have problems. I'd appreciate any advice I can get.

 

[laurarfl]

Since Colombians love egg, have you tried the egg trick? Offer her just raw egg one day and see if she takes it. Don't even put calcium in it. If she accepts it, you can use the egg as a dip for other foods. Have you tried leaving a bit of food in her cage so she can feed when she feels comfortable? If her weight is OK, I would even wait a couple of days and just leave her alone completely. Then try a little raw egg on a saucer in her enclosure. You can put paper down or something so she doesn't make a mess on her substrate. I'm sure this event has been stressful for both of you!

 

[frost]

i have an idea on getting those fat deposits down. get a tread mill.=] make his fat but walk a little lol. on top of getting him some exercise he will build up better bones. there was a study done on a couples of savanah monitors. one was exercised rigorously and the other was left do do w/e. the one that exercised had something in the bone that made it easier to conduct heat and hold it in. i cant remember the exacts but some exercise in general would benefit the tegus. the study was done to prove a point on dinosaurs but i found it interesting from a reptile keeper prospective.

 

[laurarfl]

Well, weight bearing exercise in all animals/people leads to increased bone density. It is just a physiological response to the increased demands on the body. And when weight bearing exercise is reduced, bone loss will occur as well.