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Temperature thoughts and a question

Dana C

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633
I lurking on the monitor forums, it seems that the conventional thinking is that the basking area of enclosures should be in the 130f + range. It seems most species are painted with the same brush in that regard.

I have been looking at the day time highs in Tanzania, the country in which almost all V. albigularis ionidesi, (Black Throats) are to be found. What is interesting is that for three weeks now the day time highs in the entire country have not reached 80 f except for one, in one measuring station.
I am not going to comment on what this means for husbandry, but I found it very enlightening.

In terms of my enclosure, I have a basking area that hovers close to 130f and another around 105 with the gradient moving to 85-90 in the cool end which drops to the low 70's at night. My boy, Kinabo has never visited the 130 f area and only occasionally basks in the 105 f area. He seems to prefer the area which hovers around 100-105 f and spends most of his time in the 85-95 zone.

I would appreciate any comments or knowledge you all may have about Black Throats specifically.

Thanks
 

Dubya

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Dana C said:
I lurking on the monitor forums, it seems that the conventional thinking is that the basking area of enclosures should be in the 130f + rangue. It seems most species are painted with the same brush in that regard.

I have been looking at the day time highs in Tanzania, the country in which almost all V. albigularis ionidesi, (Black Throats) are to be found. What is interesting is that for three weeks now the day time highs in the entire country have not reached 80 f except for one, in one measuring station.
I am not going to comment on what this means for husbandry, but I found it very enlightening.

In terms of my enclosure, I have a basking area that hovers close to 130f and another around 105 with the gradient moving to 85-90 in the cool end which drops to the low 70's at night. My boy, Kinabo has never visited the 130 f area and only occasionally basks in the 105 f area. He seems to prefer the area which hovers around 100-105 f and spends most of his time in the 85-95 zone.

I would appreciate any comments or knowledge you all may have about Black Throats specifically.

Thanks

Even with an ambient temperature of 80 degrees, a rock in direct sunlight would get

Dana C said:
I lurking on the monitor forums, it seems that the conventional thinking is that the basking area of enclosures should be in the 130f + range. It seems most species are painted with the same brush in that regard.

I have been looking at the day time highs in Tanzania, the country in which almost all V. albigularis ionidesi, (Black Throats) are to be found. What is interesting is that for three weeks now the day time highs in the entire country have not reached 80 f except for one, in one measuring station.
I am not going to comment on what this means for husbandry, but I found it very enlightening.

In terms of my enclosure, I have a basking area that hovers close to 130f and another around 105 with the gradient moving to 85-90 in the cool end which drops to the low 70's at night. My boy, Kinabo has never visited the 130 f area and only occasionally basks in the 105 f area. He seems to prefer the area which hovers around 100-105 f and spends most of his time in the 85-95 zone.

I would appreciate any comments or knowledge you all may have about Black Throats specifically.

Thanks

Dubya said:
Dana C said:
I lurking on the monitor forums, it seems that the conventional thinking is that the basking area of enclosures should be in the 130f + rangue. It seems most species are painted with the same brush in that regard.

I have been looking at the day time highs in Tanzania, the country in which almost all V. albigularis ionidesi, (Black Throats) are to be found. What is interesting is that for three weeks now the day time highs in the entire country have not reached 80 f except for one, in one measuring station.
I am not going to comment on what this means for husbandry, but I found it very enlightening.

In terms of my enclosure, I have a basking area that hovers close to 130f and another around 105 with the gradient moving to 85-90 in the cool end which drops to the low 70's at night. My boy, Kinabo has never visited the 130 f area and only occasionally basks in the 105 f area. He seems to prefer the area which hovers around 100-105 f and spends most of his time in the 85-95 zone.

I would appreciate any comments or knowledge you all may have about Black Throats specifically.

Thanks
Before my tablet took a dump, I was saying that even in 80 degree weather, a rock in direct sunlight would get much hotter. I would think that a lizard would bask on a hotter rock for a shorter time or a cooler one for a longer time. If the lizard seems ok, I would just leave him where he wants to be. He knows what he needs. I hate my tablet!

Even with an ambient temperature of 80 degrees, a rock in direct sunlight would get
 

Thelegendofcharlie

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Im sure there will be some forhead smacking and a clame of "Ah-ha" when I tell to the answer is right in front of your nose.
Because of Tanzania geographical location they are experiencing what would be winter in the southern hemisphere, although it would perhaps be more accurate to say it is the end of the rainy season as opposed to winter (of which there is none as we know it)
Simply stated the weather is on its best behavior right now, but this is relatively short lived. The temperate weather they are experiencing now will run its course untill about the time "our" summer ends and resume its more typical hellish conditions when we appoach autum.

My experience: Charlie - International Climatologist Extraordinaire
 

james.w

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The reason is what Dubya has stated. The ambient temperature is different than what the temperature on a rock would be. Go outside with a temp gun and take measurements of stuff around your yard.
 

Dana C

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633
Thanks and you are correct, I am very aware of the season reversal in the southern hemisphere. What interests me is the hardiness of V. ionidesi and their ability to survive, and thrive in temperatures far lower than we keep them in as captive animals.
 

james.w

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with a quick search I found that the weather in Tanzania over the next week will be from 86-89. I guarantee that in the direct sunlight rocks will be well over 130 degrees.
 

frost

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do you leave your lights on all day or do you turn them off periodically?
 

Thelegendofcharlie

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Sorry then Dana. - I thought you might have been overlooking it (at the moment)
Well of course the above is true insofar as ambient and suface teperature differentials.
So what you are hacking away at, I think, is the realization that husbandry of these animals is different in suggestion than practice. As has been stated on this site many times, care for Tegus is dependant on the particular Tegu, and no care sheet has all of the answers for us.
The same is true then Im sure, for Black Throats. Keep observing and discovering and acting on those observations, and you will have a very happy Kinabo - and alot to teach the rest of us about Black Throats.
 

james.w

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Another thing I missed the first time I read your post, are you saying the coolest spot in the cage during the day is 85? If this is the case he might not be able to cool down enough, so he doesn't need the 130+ basking spot.
 

Dana C

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633
What also is interesting is that the average high temperature in January, (their summer), is with one regional exception in the mid 80's. Moshi, is the country's hottest region with an average summer high around 92f. It has a lower altitude however. The elevation of most of Tanzania is 3,875 ft.
Much of the country's average high temperatures are in keeping with much of the U.S. However, the difference between the high and low temperatures is minimal in many areas which helps stabilize reptile metabolisms. For example in Dar es Sallam, the average high is 69f this month and the average low is the same. In many other areas, the high and low difference is only 2-5 degrees. In Idaho out temperatures can swing 40f in 24 hours.
 

Thelegendofcharlie

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That is interesting, I did not realize there was that little variation between day vs. night temperatures and seasons.
That being the case, I more strongly conclude that perhaps basking temps for that particular species should be reexamined and not cast out of the same mold as other (similar) monitor species which I think is sometimes the case in regard to recommended care.
 

TegusRawsome80

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Honestly, 85 is not a cool side. 85 isn't remotely cool. I'd say 75 or so cool spot and a basking spot, like a rock or something, at about 130 would work much better. And the answer is what others have stated. They don't need the air temp to be 130, just the spot they're laying on.
 

NorCalAl

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TegusRawsome80 said:
Honestly, 85 is not a cool side. 85 isn't remotely cool. I'd say 75 or so cool spot ...

And how would you maintain a 75 spot in the summer? I believe you mentioned you live near the coast. Most of California's inland - and much of the rest of the country - is going to be 100+ for three to five months of the year. Short of introducing an ac unit to the enclosure or maintaining temps in your home that would both be too cool for us as well as destroy our bank accounts, how do you cool outside (the enclosure) ambient temps to the point where a 75f spot can be obtained inside?

I've got my enclosures in a fairly cool (most of the day) room that is AC controlled like the rest of the house. Ambient air temps in the room rarely approach anything higher than 85. But by 10am, the 'cool spot' inside the enclosure has hit that and rises up to 87 during the hottest part of the day. I do have 12-14" of damp soil, so my guys disappear during that time.

And it's only going to get hotter for the next couple of months.

I just re-read this and it sounds like an attack. Not meant that way at all. I'm very interested in how to achieve this - without moving. Although I wish that were an option! As I add more enclosures to the room, I can see the temps only rising during the summer.

I also know you could be saying that a 75 cool spot would be a desirable thing, not necessarily something that can be done.
 

TegusRawsome80

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I could be wrong but I don't entirely think the OP lives in Cali. I do live by the coast but it still gets hot. I just have my animals in an A/C controlled room that stays cold enough so I can achieve a 75 cold side. Also, unless if the OP has drastically changed his setup, I don't believe the animal has enough substrate to get down to a depth where he could escape the heat like your ackies do. I'm really not sure how to achieve that cool spot in central cali. I suppose you could try to set up a low energy fan in one side of the cage but it'd have to be concealed so your ackies couldn't get at it and could be expensive to continually use.
 

Dana C

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633
I can tell you that it is very hard to achieve cool side temps that are below 80-84 during the summer in Southern Idaho. While the day time average high in the summer is 86f, many days are in the low 90's. I live in a very old house without AC and the days are very long. My solution has been to let Kinabo spend time in the bathroom where he cools down on the linoleum. I turn off all lighting at night to allow his enclosure and him to cool down as well.
As for the hot basking spot, I have seen him under it maybe 5 times in four months. Like I said, he seems to prefer the other basking area which is around 105-108 and the area around it which is in the mid to high 90's
 

NorCalAl

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I maintain two designed basking spots: 130 and 110. I say designed because those are "my" created spots. The ackies, on the other hand, have their own spots. Neither of which is under the lights. Like Kinabo, my guys have decided it's too hot in my spots. They might get up in the morning and lay in them long enough to get warm, then they move to off-center spots. I record temps, ambient and basking, at least three times a day. Yeah, really. I live a sad, lonely life. :0)

I'm not 100% sure if they don't use the spots during the day due to high ambient temps (80 or so, going to 85 or so during the later part of the day) or it's just plain too hot at those temps. I imagine I'll find out once winter hits and ambients drop on the 'cool' side of the cage.
 

Dubya

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Dana C said:
I can tell you that it is very hard to achieve cool side temps that are below 80-84 during the summer in Southern Idaho. While the day time average high in the summer is 86f, many days are in the low 90's. I live in a very old house without AC and the days are very long. My solution has been to let Kinabo spend time in the bathroom where he cools down on the linoleum. I turn off all lighting at night to allow his enclosure and him to cool down as well.
As for the hot basking spot, I have seen him under it maybe 5 times in four months. Like I said, he seems to prefer the other basking area which is around 105-108 and the area around it which is in the mid to high 90's

What about a small 120v axial fan to remove excess heat like this one.
http://m.grainger.com/mobile/details/?R=4WT48
 

james.w

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In my opinion the fact that you don't provide an appropriate temperature gradient makes it tough to make claims on the animals behavior. An animal in a cage can only use what we give them. If you don't provide an adequate cool side temp, the fact that they don't use your 130 degree basking spot doesn't mean much. They never cool off enough to have the need for that spot, or so it seems. Could it also be possible that he is using the high basking spot for a very short time and you aren't seeing him?

As far as not being able to provide a 75 degree cool side, I live in las Vegas and was still able to provide 75 degree cool sides for the animals that needed it when the temps outside were well over 100.
 

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