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Silly Tegu species arguments

nepoez

Member
5 Year Member
Messages
102
I noticed that there are some arguments about the different tegu "species" out there that are named based on their subtle or distinct differences in appearance. Blue, Chacoan, white head, etc.

I saw many long threads arguing about these differences. But honestly it's all just semantics! I mean I've seen some white people with small noses and some white people with large noses. Are they different species, or races, or morphs? We can always tack on a name and call it something. "Big nose whites" is now a new morph of the human species! Don't like the word morph? Well let's make up a new word, "Marph"!

I mean even the word "species" is made up by people long ago to categorize certain differences we manage to observe. If we remove that word we can all just be called animals, then if we remove the word "animal" we can all be called "objects".

Rules have been made up by people who practice "science" on how to differentiate between "species"(among many other things). So you can't call a "Blue" or "Chacoan" a different species based on these rules that "science" have defined for using the word "species". But if you do see a difference in characteristics, there's nothing wrong with tagging a different word/term/category to it. e.g. I can call a guy a "big nose white" based on his appearance if I like, that's not a new "species" however because the rules for determining species have already been defined but since it is a characteristic you observe you are free to tag a new word to it. I don't know what defines a "morph" but if there's already a definition of "morph" then make up a different word. It's all just semantics! When people argue about these things they are simply arguing about predefined rules. But you if don't want to comply to the rules people of "science" made up, you can reassign a different meaning to the word "species". Then you can be correct when you call a Blue tegu a different species, but only on your own definition of the word "species". However, there is a reason why rules are defined in communication protocols. It is so that everyone knows what each other is talking about, for the sake of communication, integrity in definition needs to exist.

From what I see, all these argument just boils down to the fact that the more scientific people here simply understand these predefined rules better, and the others are just not describing things they observe based on these predefined rules. But in the end, they see the same thing. A guy with a big nose... well he has a big nose!
 

dpjm

Active Member
5 Year Member
Messages
378
I see what you're saying, but I don't think it is all about semantics. If a person comes on the forum saying "I have this tegu with a very white head (or some other characteristic), do you think it is a Chacoan white head?" then the person isn't asking us if we agree that the tegu has a white head, they are asking if the tegu belongs to some other species. When the term "species" comes into play, then science has to step in and answer because species is a scientific term, first and foremost. And the answer right now has to be that this is not an answerable question as this other species has never been formally described.

Do you see what I mean? Depending on how the question is asked, the answer might be scientific or might not. If you are asking about whether a tegu is a certain species then you are asking a question that must be answered by science. If you are asking if a tegu has a white head or a blueish skin tone, then that is not a scientific question and can be answered by anyone with an opinion. But I find most people are interested in placing their animal into a category (species).

I don't at all like the idea of assigning your own definitions to terms like species. Definitions are put in place so that everyone knows what is meant by a certain term, as you said. If we all define species differently then how can we hold any sort of discussion.
 

nepoez

Member
5 Year Member
Messages
102
I see what you're saying, but I don't think it is all about semantics. If a person comes on the forum saying "I have this tegu with a very white head (or some other characteristic), do you think it is a Chacoan white head?" then the person isn't asking us if we agree that the tegu has a white head, they are asking if the tegu belongs to some other species. When the term "species" comes into play, then science has to step in and answer because species is a scientific term, first and foremost. And the answer right now has to be that this is not an answerable question as this other species has never been formally described.

Do you see what I mean? Depending on how the question is asked, the answer might be scientific or might not. If you are asking about whether a tegu is a certain species then you are asking a question that must be answered by science. If you are asking if a tegu has a white head or a blueish skin tone, then that is not a scientific question and can be answered by anyone with an opinion. But I find most people are interested in placing their animal into a category (species).

I don't at all like the idea of assigning your own definitions to terms like species. Definitions are put in place so that everyone knows what is meant by a certain term, as you said. If we all define species differently then how can we hold any sort of discussion.

I believe we're in agreement as you can see in my post when I talked about the use of the term "species". It's a term already defined. But what I'm saying is, if an owner must categorize his tegu, he's free find another way to categorize or describe it. I'm just saying, we're seeing the same characteristics. Some people are just not truly aware of the already established meaning of "species" and use is incorrectly.

But what is really wrong here is something else. The people who properly understand the term "species" are probably right when they say a white head tegu is not a new species. BUT... they are wrong when they say something like "You got just a normal Salvator Merianae so stop thinking it's worth more". So what if it's a Salvator Merianae? It still has a white head, or a fire bell, or 5 tails! Just because you can tag a term such as "species" onto this particular animal doesn't mean you can ignore the fact that it's different, or has extra characteristics that is more valued by people. I'm just a normal guy with no white head, nor fire belly. Anyone can tell that I'm the exact same species as Brad Pitt. But ask any woman out there if they had to pay $100 to spend a day with me or Brad Pitt, who would they choose? Would they flip a coin because we're the same species? P.S. When we breed, Brad Pitt's kids would most likely have similar features that are higher valued by people in general than compared to my kids if I were to breed, even tho we are the same species.
 
Last edited:

dpjm

Active Member
5 Year Member
Messages
378
Most certainly, Salvator merianae shows extremely variable phenotypes, so you have lots of variation and sometimes they may display physical traits that people find more desirable than other traits. I've got no issues with people saying they have a S. merianae with a white head or whatever other characteristic they may come up with. That's all fine and good, as long as you don't start making claims that this is some different species. That is crossing a line that they cannot without really strong evidence. I've seen quite a few times people saying that they have this tegu with a white head, then ask if we think it is a Chacoan. We have to say that, no, this is a S. merianae with a white head.
 

nepoez

Member
5 Year Member
Messages
102
Most certainly, Salvator merianae shows extremely variable phenotypes, so you have lots of variation and sometimes they may display physical traits that people find more desirable than other traits. I've got no issues with people saying they have a S. merianae with a white head or whatever other characteristic they may come up with. That's all fine and good, as long as you don't start making claims that this is some different species. That is crossing a line that they cannot without really strong evidence. I've seen quite a few times people saying that they have this tegu with a white head, then ask if we think it is a Chacoan. We have to say that, no, this is a S. merianae with a white head.

Makes sense. Just curious though, is Chacoan an actual species? Or just another made up term tagged onto certain traits?
 

dpjm

Active Member
5 Year Member
Messages
378
Chacoan is not a separate species. A tegu called a Chacoan is Salvator merianae. There are plenty of posts on these forums discussing Chacoans that you could search for if you are interested. I'm not exactly sure what the purported traits of a Chacoan are.
 

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